Categorized | church involvement, featured

Come on, Mormons. Let’s be Honest.

Posted on 24 November 2008 by admin

While I wholeheartedly embrace free speech, sometimes it gets a little tiresome and repetitive.  I also don’t think spam is to be embraced as free speech as there are costs to those on the receiving end.  Since I’m hoping this blog goes beyond the common arguments being slung around, I do moderate the comments. I’ve allowed a few opposing comments to be posted, but if the arguments are tired, I don’t want to pollute the pages here.  With that disclaimer, here is a recent exchange that I had privately with someone posting a comment that I rejected.

– Reply to Comment on Blog, Shown Below the reply –
Thanks for your comment on my blog. I thought I’d take a moment to reply.

You and I both know, from our deep understanding of the chruch and its members, exactly what the truth is here: Mormons were a huge force behind Prop 8, both a majority of the financial support and a majority of the people on the ground. That’s unquestionable.

So why do you and others continue to ask why Mormons are being singled out?  It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t the “church” and only it’s members.  I know that you know, as do I, what the effect is of leadership calling members to “do whatever you can do” on any topic. The data clearly shows what the effect was. Do you claim that this level of support would have occurred without this calling from the leadership? I’m certain that this is not a claim you or any other member of the LDS church would make.

So why is the church and its members disavowing the influence here?  Why don’t you stand up and take pride in what you’ve done?

If the campaign had been against Mormon marriage, would you be arguing that “the people voted, this was completely fair” if you had lost?  Can you say with a straight face that this is true?

I learned in LDS primary that honesty isn’t only about words that you utter. It’s just as dishonest to allow a false idea to stand as it is to utter a falsehood yourself.  Using partial truths to deny the reality of what happened is simply dishonest.  You clearly understand the situation here, yet you try to persuade others that it is unjust through obscuring the facts.

Please, PLEASE don’t make me think any less of the religion and upbringing I had.  PLEASE at least stand by what was done here. Honestly.

– Darin

———- Original Comment ———-
Author : Andrew H.

Marriage in the LDS temples are performed by recognized agents and are on record with the state. These marriages are performed for “time and all eternity”. Many couples who attend the temple for a “sealing” are already married civilly by a registered agent of the state such as a “bishop” in the church or any other registered agent. The couple then go to the temple to be “sealed for time and all eternity”.  

Mormons make up less then 5% of the Californian population. Though the church encouraged it’s members to participate and donate to YES on 8, the church itself did not give $20Million to YES on 8 organizations, but citizens of the state did. It asked and did not mandate this. If you were LDS and voted NO… no discipline was taken or if you didn’t give money, no disciplinary action was taken. It was voluntary!

How can a group like the LGBT pin just the MORMONS as the main cause of their political defeat by the ballot? It’s like blaming Global Warming on the incandescent light bulb. The NO for 8 raised more money then YES and they still lost, so money was not the problem here. The problem the LGBT has is that Californians are not ready to accept same sex marriage. Should we strip blacks of their rights to marry because they overwhelmingly voted YES on 8? How about the Hispanics? Catholics? Evangelicals? Other faiths or peoples?

The law protects faiths and their practice of marriage. Many NO to 8 backers repeat that this would not effect religions and their right  not to marry same sex couples (FOR NOW). You & I know that down the road, this issue would be challenged. Religious rights would be nit-picked at where victories could be won. What would be taught in schools as normal? What rights do I have as a parent when it comes to public schools and what is taught? Creationalism cannot be taught today in many schools, only Darwinism and Evolution. We as a nation sometimes remove the rights of some to give rights to others. In this case, we put it to a vote, (again) and AGAIN the voters said NO to same sex marriage.

I, as a “Mormon”, have never heard a church leader or member speak about gays as gays have spoken about “Mormons”. We disagree on moral grounds that homosexuality is contrary to God’s law. We also speak out against abortion as it is contrary to God’s law. We speak our conscience as part of our given right of “free speech and religion” and we voted our conscience in the political arena. If the vote had gone in favor of same sex marriage, you certainly would not have seen church members marching in foul protest at gay events or in SF. We would have accepted the will of the people and wait for another day for our voice to be heard. Why can’t the LGBT do the same?

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1 Comments For This Post

  1. Sam Says:

    Where do this people come from? I’m not Mormon, but have heard /read what their church leaders have said that has denigrated and promoted violence against gays (one of Matthew Shepard’s killers was a Mormon Priesthood holder). Their church continues to distribute 3 pamphlets TO THIS DAY, that promote homophobia and “gay rage.” They are entitled “To Young Men Only,” “To The One,” and “Letter To a Friend.” The first two were written by BOYd k. PACKER (with a name like that, I guess it would be difficult to grow up 60+ years ago and not be homophobic) and the last was written by s former Mormon “prophet” Spencer W. Kimbal. http://www.affirmation.org/news/2000_46.shtml During the ’70s (When Spencer Kimbal was their “prophet”), Mormon’s practiced electro-shock therapy to “cure” homosexuals. Three young men died of electrocution during this “therapy for a friend.” http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_homosexuality.html Are Mormon’s so ignorant of their own history? Do they think they are so oppressed because we disagree with them? Sorry, until protesters start killing Mormons by hate crimes, the Mormon church is one of the last institution on earth that can play the victim with this issue perhaps contemporary Nazi’s or Klan members would take the prize for worst. But that’s the company the Mormon Church keeps on this issue.

    To say that the right of religions to practice their faith independent of whether or not they bless same sex marriages would “gradually erode” without prop 8, is either willful dishonesty (from another Mormon … I’M SHOCKED!! :) or ignorance. The very California Supreme Court decision that allowed same sex marriage in the first place, noted that California law protected religions and clergy to practice any belief they wanted without interference in regards to same sex marriage and their decision should not be interpreted to disagree with those laws. Read the ruling here http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/archive/S147999.PDF

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  1. California Investigates Mormon Prop 8 Money | Stop The Mormons Says:

    [...] dollars that it reported in filings as evidence of this. Readers may recall that I find this misdirection to be disgusting and dishonest, especially as someone who heard many sermons and lessons about honesty growing up in the [...]

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