I just watched a medical T.V. show where a little girl was brought to the ER by her teacher with unexplained burns to her legs. It made me cry. It was discovered she was a victim of child abuse. My mind couldn’t help but go to the beautiful, loving gentle gays and lesbians out there who have suffered terrible emotional abuse by homophobic views directed at them by those who are supposed to love, cherish and protect them, their families, friends and churches. How can Mormons complain about the civil disobedience that raged after gays were shunned once again and told they aren’t quite good enough to be called equal, and heaven forbid, allowed to share the word marriage?

We aren’t kindergartners people. By the time we are old enough to vote we should be able to share with others – including the word marriage; especially when what we share takes nothing away from heterosexuals and creates love and joy in committed same gender partners. Live Christ’s example and his adage to Love One Another. And I don’t mean the type of love I keep hearing about where you can love the gays just not let them have equality. That’s NOT love, nor is it anywhere near love. It is pure discriminatory judgment that deeply hurts some of God’s most precious souls. If in the eternal scheme of things God truly abhors homosexuality (which I highly doubt) judgment will be up to Him/Her, not us.

There’s this sentence, that is maybe intentionally ambiguous, “we believe that (sex is) to be employed only between man and woman, LAWFULLY wedded as husband and wife.” So I guess, depending on if your church is talking about it’s law or a State’s law this would explain why they have some interest in civil law governing heterosexual marriage, nothing about homosexual marriage other than, by extension, they don’t believe it’s an acceptable context for sexual expression. Maybe if Gay Mormons promised to remain celibate after marriage your church would have a different take?

It goes on to say have lots of kids (perfect, just what we need), raise them right to be “law abiding” perhaps another ambiguous statement of interest in civil law in GENERAL, again no mention of same sex marriage law.

Goes on to explain Mormon religious belief about heterosexual marriage, including the role of the man and the woman in the marriage (a bit of a throwback to the 1950′s) but ok …

Nothing in here addresses why the Church feels it is so VERY VERY Important that non-believing, same sex couples not be given the same legal rights and access to civil marriage that opposite sex couples have unless you are warning us that the Mormon’s are going to attack the marriages of all non-believers, non-believing childless couples, or believing sterile couples next.

It Does end with this: “We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.”

THAT IS FASCINATING as it appears to be in direct opposition to the observed heartless attack ongoing in the California courts right now to tear apart 18,000 same-sex families with a forced divorce including those households who have children by adoption, surrogacy, prior failed marraiges, and even foster kids.

Why is tearing those families apart that may want to function and do most everything mentioned (other than the specific religious beliefs the Mormons espouse) so important? This Mormon Church Statement is entirely silent on that! I really don’t see how this in any way answers the question regarding why your church so vociferously opposes CIVIL marriage equality. I’m afraid if it’s there, I missed it entirely. You’ll have to spell it out for us.

In case you haven’t noticed, Miriam has carefully avoided answering every issue that requires any demonstration of critical thinking skills.

Your posts are intelligent and well measured but you really are wasting your time with Miriam. She will never have a serious, meaningful, honest conversation with you or anyone else for that matter. Miriam is not capable of intelligent, adult conversation and that’s why she only responds to side “issues” instead of the real, legitimate questions posed to her. After all, if Miriam were capable of genuine, legitimate, adult, critical thinking she would not be a believing member of the Mormon Cult in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for your intelligent and well thought out queries which will, sadly, go unanswered by any believing Mormon Cult member since they can’t say what they really believe and still make any sense.

I think I’ve got it now.

We aren’t disagreeing on whether or not premarital sex is religiously OK, or even if gay or straight sex is religiously OK … in any context … in or out of marriage. Sex is simply not the issue at hand, which is why it is a red herring.

I am also not disagreeing with your right to believe anything you want, even things that some people may find offensive, like that they should be celibate their whole life. That said, most people also believe that your right to swing your hand, also ends where another persons nose begins. So codifying your religious beliefs about what kind of marriage is OK for other clearly consenting adults into law, is another issue entirely.

What we are also disagreeing on, is using any religious certainty or belief that disapproves of gay sex as a reason to oppose gay marriage, since the law that was passed in California defined legal marriage, NOT legal sex. Prop 8, in fact, never mentioned gay sex (the red herring) one way or the other, it only outlawed gay marriage.

If anything, there is an inverse relationship between gay marriage and gay sex. There is clearly not a positive correlation. Gay sex is, to this very day, punishable by DEATH in some countries and gay people STILL have sex in those same countries. You can’t honestly believe that outlawing gay marriage will affect gay sex in any way other than to increase serial monogamy and/or promiscuity amongst the target population. Since you disapprove of gay people having sex, I assume that is not the reason. If it’s not what your church is supporting, then I ask again, what is the REAL reason your church has to oppose gay marriage?