Just a few questions.

1. I was under the impression that Mormons baptize at 8, and give priesthood in two steps to males, one at 12 and one at 18. Is that true? Why would you try to portray Shepard’s murderer as someone who showed up to church once when he was 8 then had no further affiliation? Mormon dishonesty again?

2. You really think the abhorrent murders of Mormons in a foreign country (Russia no less) trying to recruit people to their religion is somehow comparable to the regular beatings and murders of gays in America?!?

3. Do you think if LGBT people went on recruiting “missions” to straight people in Russia they might get beaten, sometimes to death, just a bit more often, like maybe 100% of the time?

4. As long as a bare majority agrees that YOU should not have equal rights, that would be OK with you? Would you asking for them anyway, even through judicial redress? Would that just be a sophisticated bait and switch for you?

5. Are you admitting that Mormons are only in favor of equal rights geographically, like the Bay Area, where they are far outnumbered, but not in their strongholds like Utah? If not do you have any evidence that the Mormons will support equal (even separate but equal) rights for LGBT people in Utah? If so, you might want to let Equality Utah know about it, they’re still waiting for an answer. http://www.equalityutah.org/

You picked out the one thing that is not the point and went for it.

This is the normal way that Mormon Cult members choose to conduct a “conversation”.

Either you completely missed that point, or, perhaps, you got the point and choose to do the typical Mormon Cult red herring thing in order to deflect from the actual conversation.

Since you are determined to do the typical Mormon Cult Propagandist tool thing, it’s difficult to imagine how we could have a real conversation.

Obviously, you still don’t have a clue.

Please compare the number of beaten and killed Mormon Cult missionaries with the number of beaten and killed gays.

How many beaten or killed missionaries in Utah? How many beaten or killed gays in Utah?

Mr. Mormon – get a clue!

What a load of you know what!! You know that the guy who killed Matthew Shepard was Mormon only in the sense that he was baptised mormon. He wasn’t active and really had no affiliation with the church. Quit playing me and everyone else on this website for a fool. And by the way, when I was on a mission in 99, two missionairies were literally beaten to a pulp in Russia not far from where I was at. So don’t give the BS that it doesn’t happen, both of them died.

And yes we do believe in equal rights. In fact I was watching the local news here (bay area) about the issue and a rep from the PR dpearment of the church said ON THE NEWS that we had no position on the rights of homosexuals, and that the ammendment was purely about the definition of marriage.

But I do think you summarized the issue quite well in the first two sentences from the perspective of the gay community this issue is about status. But it is always portrayed as being about rights. It’s a neat little trick that is played, a kind of sophisticated bait and switch, and then if you don’t get your way call everyone who disagrees with you a bigot and get the courts to overturn the vote of the people of CA.

The truly sad part about your posts is that I believe you actually are that befuddled. TheGay people don’t want separate but equal “civil unions,” We’ve tried separate but equal in this country. Either we all get marriages or we all get civil unions. Besides, contrary to lies posted all over the Internet, including on this site by Mormons doing their church homework, you don’t really believe in even separate but equal civil rights for gays. Equality Utah called your Church out on them for Utah but evidently Mormons only believe in separate but equal rights in certain geographical areas. The Mormon’s God’s laws evidently are subject to human jurisdictions. Who knew? http://www.equalityutah.org/11-17-2008_Press_Release.pdf

As far as being befuddled about Mormon’s bullying the gay community for years, did you not just read the timeline? I don’t really see much of it as gay people bringing it up in courts. Was some part of it wrong or missing that would clarify it all for us as not bullying? Were you never given the pamphlet “For Young Men Only” in your church, written by closet-case/homophobe, Boyd K. Packer? http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml? Here’s a few choice quotes, we’ll start with the most interesting: “There are some circumstances in which young men may be tempted to handle one another, to have contact with one another physically in unusual ways. Latter-day Saint young men are not to do this.”

Hmmm …. I’ve can’t think of a single circumstance in which I was tempted to touch a woman in any sexually intimate way … EVER. I always just thought it was kinda gross, which is normal for a homosexual, to be tempted both ways would make me bisexual and only towards women heterosexual. So what is is Mr. Packer?

But here’s the more relevant one: ”There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist. While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done. After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, “I hit my companion.” “Oh, is that all,” I said in great relief. “But I floored him,” he said. After learning a little more, my response was “Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn’t be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way”

Is it any wonder to you that one of Matthew Shepard’s killers was a Mormon Priesthood holder? It shouldn’t be. Next time one of your Mormon friends bemoans the “persecution” of Mormons on cites like this one, ask them when the last time they remember a Mormon being beat to a pulp and tied to a fence to die of exposure on a cold Wyoming night. That’s why we find you all playing the victim role now so repugnant … because it is.

That document sets the tone for everything else that follows. Go look it up in either Google or Wikipedia.

Anastasia Niedrich: you rock.